Episode 5

full
Published on:

10th Feb 2023

Aleister Crowley the Influencer of Society Part 1

Sam Smith this past week shows the outcome of Aleister Crowley's teaching that is the spirit of the age. In The Gio and Joey podcast today we look at a scholarly article sympathetic to Crowley and show how Crowley influence is pervasive in the entertainment industry and among the elite. When you think of the Jeffrey Epstein scandal that has been buried in the news or the Balenciaga ads using children scandal you see Crowley's influence. Tune in to part 1 of this 2 part series wherever podcast are listed.

Part 2 will drop next Friday and shows artist talking about being possessed by "spirits" to do the things they do on stage. You won't want to miss it.

Jeffery Epstein Scandal

Balenciaga Scandal:

The Scholarly paper referenced in the video:

Transcript
Gio:

Hello everybody.

Gio:

Welcome back to the Gio and Joey podcast.

Gio:

Today we have that special episode for you on Alice Crowley.

Gio:

And in light of the Grammy's, boy do we have a doozy.

Gio:

Joey, how you doing today?

Joey:

I'm doing good.

Joey:

Looking forward to getting into our subject,

Joey:

. Gio: Can you believe it?

Joey:

We're dropping this subject today.

Joey:

And the Grammys happened.

Joey:

And what'd you think of that Grammy performance?

Joey:

We have a little video clip, but before your overall thoughts

Joey:

on that Grammy performance?

Joey:

I think it illustrated just how far our culture has fallen.

Joey:

I don't remember specifically, but I remember like old reruns.

Joey:

The I Love Lucy Show, and I remember a point Michael Knowles brought up, is

Joey:

that when she was pregnant on the show, cbs, a major television network didn't

Joey:

want to allow her to be aired pregnant, but they ultimately did allow it, but

Joey:

they wouldn't allow her to say the word pregnant because they viewed it as too

Joey:

scandalous, all the couples, even like in all those shows, had like separate beds.

Joey:

And like now we're having like overt satanic sexual rituals as

Joey:

our entertainment on mainstream tv.

Joey:

So it's just like how far we've fallen.

Gio:

That's a good point.

Gio:

and I think it sets us up for the clip we're about to watch.

Gio:

This is incredible.

Gio:

They're not even trying to hide it anymore.

Gio:

Let's look at this.

Joey:

Kim Petras and Sam Smith had an epic night.

Joey:

At the 2023 Grammys, the duo hit the stage to deliver a majorly racy

Joey:

performance of their hit song unholy.

Joey:

Kim was seen on stage in a cage surrounded by dancers with whips.

Joey:

Sam rocked a bright red top hat with horns while belting out the

Joey:

song for the audience, and the crowd went wild for their performance.

Joey:

Sam, thank you.

Joey:

You are a true angel and hero in my life, and I love you

Gio:

There's something I wanna point out in what she said.

Gio:

She said, Sam, you're my angel audience.

Gio:

Pay attention to that phrase.

Gio:

You're my angel.

Gio:

Because when we show you some quotes here from a scholarly paper, you're going to

Gio:

see what she really means by that phrase.

Gio:

Your thoughts on what you saw.

Joey:

I know you didn't do this intentionally, but

Joey:

those were actually both men.

Joey:

they're both Kim Petras and Sam Smith.

Joey:

What I find particularly disturbing is Kim Petras, in 2008 or 2009,

Joey:

was interviewed on a major news thing about his transition.

Joey:

He was one of the, Minor, gender reassignment surgeries, and now he's,

Joey:

a Grammy, award-winning artist.

Joey:

I find that that's kind of an interesting perspective to this.

Joey:

And it's another point that Michael Knowles came up with on his show

Joey:

today, was that generally speaking, these depictions of the demonic,

Joey:

they're not hyper-masculine or hyper-feminine, but they're androgynous,

Joey:

A good point is that God made men and women as men and women, that's

Joey:

how we display the image of God.

Joey:

And so when we see these overt, demonic things, there's very much

Joey:

an erasure of sexual difference.

Joey:

I just think that's an interesting component to all this,

Gio:

I just found out.

Gio:

That used to be a man.

Gio:

I didn't even know that, and it's so much how society has gone warped.

Gio:

Everything is overt now.

Gio:

They're not even trying to hide it.

Gio:

But that's not taking me really too much by surprise because as we look at

Gio:

this paper, now you're going to realize that this is all part of the it's all

Gio:

part of Alistair Crowley's philosophy.

Gio:

He considered himself a prophet.

Gio:

And look at this paper and we're actually gonna be looking at a scholarly paper.

Gio:

The reason we're looking at this paper is because this is not some

Gio:

kid who wrote this paper as a blog.

Gio:

This is actually for a state university on a master's level degree.

Gio:

this individual, just look at the title of this paper.

Gio:

It says, in the Shadow of the Beast, the impact of Aleister

Gio:

Crowley on new religious movements and contemporary culture.

Gio:

We could wrap up the whole video right here and just show the Sam Smith as

Gio:

proof of Crowley's, influence in society.

Gio:

Your thoughts on just the title of this paper.

Joey:

I think, like you said, it's self-evident.

Joey:

And what we're gonna flush out is that what we're seeing like with Sam Smith.

Joey:

I know Beyonce has had like certain demonic, flashes and certain music videos.

Joey:

I know, Jay-Z, has had his do as thou wilt phrase.

Joey:

So there's been other overt signs of this in our culture, but I think

Joey:

in some ways, a lot of Crowley's philosophy has been for the most part

Joey:

under the surface, and that's in a certain way, more concerning to me.

Joey:

In even some of the subtle themes that we'll see in certain, kids programming.

Joey:

It's very much that subtle stuff that kind of sets the stage

Joey:

for this more explicit stuff.

Gio:

And in part two of this series, we're gonna look at some of those

Gio:

Jay-Z and Beyonce and other artists' examples, and we're gonna talk about

Gio:

symbolism and how symbolism plays a role in Christianity, but also how

Gio:

Crowley and his minions use symbolism to portray what they want to do as well.

Gio:

Well go ahead and read the abstract, for the audience and for those

Gio:

who may be listening on podcasts.

Joey:

In the late 19th century, great Britain, there was a revival

Joey:

of interest in magic and occultism that emerged during the Renaissance.

Joey:

Aleister Crowley, who lived from 1875 to 1947, was a product of that revival.

Joey:

One who has had an ironically long afterlife despite all of the

Joey:

controversy that has surrounded.

Joey:

Crowley should also be remembered as a significant influence upon the founders of

Joey:

a variety of new religious movements such as Gerald Gardener and one Ron Hubbard.

Joey:

There was an increased interest in his work in personality that emerged

Joey:

several decades after his death as evidenced by the use of his image

Joey:

on the cover of a Beatles album, an.

Joey:

In the sales of his books and an emerging new status as a countercultural icon.

Gio:

What's interesting about that abstract is that Gerald Gardner is

Gio:

the founder of Wiccan Religion, and L.

Gio:

Ron Hubbard is the founder of Scientology.

Gio:

So here are two purported religions that try to be influential in society,

Gio:

and yet they have been heavily.

Gio:

By Alistair Crowley.

Gio:

And what's interesting about this paper is that the author Robert Anthony Jones

Gio:

is not someone who is against Crowley per se, or someone who is teaching against

Gio:

Crowley, like Joey and myself are.

Gio:

If you look at his dedication here, and for those who are listening

Gio:

on the podcast, this says he dedicates this to his goddess Kal.

Gio:

He dedicated to his children, to his parents, and then he says this, and to

Gio:

my band and creative outlet, MAs bagua.

Gio:

Now I looked up who mass bagua is, and look at this, Joey, look at the

Gio:

title of their first song on this.

Gio:

The title of this album is US Rot Cult, and the title of the first

Gio:

song is Satan Worshiping Dope Head.

Gio:

It's Nuts People.

Gio:

This guy is overtly a Crowley fan and he did a paper to try to influence people

Gio:

to be sympathetic towards Crowley, but satan has always symbolized

Gio:

that which is evil in society, and yet he has a album and a band that

Gio:

gives homage to Satan and to Crowley.

Joey:

I find it interesting that the name of the album US Rat Cult.

Joey:

that's exactly what we've seen with this stuff is that the more that

Joey:

this influence pervades our culture, it that's what it does, right?

Joey:

It ro rats.

Joey:

Like you think of kind of the high time of American culture, you think

Joey:

of Samuel Clemens or Mark Twain.

Joey:

When you think of the more Christian influences of the stuff that we used to

Joey:

produce, and it was lifted your spirit.

Joey:

Versus now after years of Crowley's influence, we're creating stuff that's

Joey:

like sexualizing children, and it's just the most degraded form of art.

Joey:

It's an apt name for a song to describe this movement.

Gio:

Look at this next quote, which is talking about Crowley's influence.

Gio:

His impact on new religious movements can be seen through the role he played in

Gio:

the work of l Ron Hubbard, Scientology, Gerald Gardner, Wicca, and Eugene Crochet.

Gio:

This guy Crowley is influencing people left and right.

Gio:

And as you said earlier, it's very subtle and yet we're seeing the

Gio:

fruits of it and when it's subtle.

Gio:

They try to dismiss it.

Gio:

That's just shock value.

Gio:

A matter of fact of the Sam Smith thing, I see many ministers saying,

Gio:

oh, that's just shock value.

Gio:

They're just bringing attention to themselves.

Gio:

Yeah they may be doing that, but they're also teaching the lesson.

Gio:

What are your thoughts on that notion that it's only shock value?

Joey:

I forget who said it, but but it was a good quote and.

Joey:

You can only do something ironically for so long before

Joey:

you're just doing the thing.

Joey:

Yeah, you may be ironically worshiping Satan , but at the same

Joey:

time you're still worshiping Satan.

Joey:

And it doesn't stay ironic for long, right?

Joey:

It has an effect and and it shapes, your actions and your beliefs.

Joey:

I think sometimes What we do, From what we believe, but what we

Joey:

do affects what we believe habit becomes part of our ingrained beliefs.

Joey:

So yeah, I don't buy that line.

Joey:

. Gio: Yeah.

Joey:

Neither do I.

Joey:

Look at this quote.

Joey:

Crowley had a purpose.

Joey:

He saw himself as this.

Joey:

These qualities coupled with his apparent, genuine conviction of being the prophet

Joey:

of the new age, that Aon of horas and a pension for pushing every experimental

Joey:

and moral boundary Crowley's cultural and literary presence is perhaps the most

Joey:

pervasive and noteworthy of any figure associated with new religious movements.

Joey:

And that's why you see it prevalent in all these, society issues today.

Joey:

You see them pushing the boundaries.

Joey:

You see them trying to see how much more they can get away with.

Joey:

And we see it in all these Grammy and MTV awards.

Joey:

They're constantly pushing the boundary.

Joey:

This is not the first time they do some Satanic ritual

Joey:

on one of these award shows.

Joey:

Look at this top quote everybody.

Joey:

It says, however, my intent is not to propose justification for some of

Joey:

Crowley's more notorious deeds, real or imagined, but simply to present a fair

Joey:

and balanced assessment of his noble contributions to contemporary western

Joey:

culture, particularly in the areas of spirituality, sexuality, and occult.

Joey:

What's dangerous about that is there was a time in this country

Joey:

where Occultism was frowned upon.

Joey:

Yet now it's celebrated.

Joey:

I think what I find most interesting about that is that

Joey:

this author, he's positing kind of the conspiracy in the open.

Joey:

So in other words, people sometimes when, we talk about like this, Satan

Joey:

elements in our culture, people say, oh, you're being a conspiracy theorist.

Joey:

No, these are real people who were pushing real ideas.

Joey:

And those ideas did gain attraction, we can see them.

Joey:

So it's not some conspiracy theory.

Joey:

It's like, no.

Joey:

These are real people.

Joey:

And they did have this influence.

Joey:

And when you look at these artists and these people, they'll claim it.

Joey:

They're not hiding the fact that they're influenced by Crowley.

Joey:

They really were.

Joey:

They're open about it.

Gio:

And in part two of this series, we're gonna have video

Gio:

evidence of a couple of celebrities.

Gio:

Actually verbally saying that they're possessed spiritually.

Gio:

They push sexual boundaries, and obviously the occult, like in the

Gio:

Sam Smith at the Grammys is overt.

Gio:

They're not even trying to hide it people.

Gio:

The second of part of this quote says this, Crowley has probably

Gio:

had more profound influence on the way that modern magic is imagined,

Gio:

represented, and practiced than any other single 20th century figure.

Gio:

So look at this next quote, everybody, he says, do what thou wilt and

Gio:

every man and woman is a star.

Gio:

By the turn of the century, Crowley was un avowedly bisexual.

Gio:

We see that in society today.

Gio:

He used psychotropic drugs.

Gio:

Is there any wonder why people are pushing drugs and why legalizing of drugs

Gio:

is even more common today and explored these eastern religions like Hinduism?

Gio:

Yoga Buddhism.

Gio:

Taoism traveled to India and China in the first decade of the 20th

Gio:

century, looking for these religions when considering the 1960s revival of

Gio:

interest in Crowley's life and legend.

Gio:

His renewed status as a counter-cultural icon should come as no surprise.

Gio:

It's incredible.

Gio:

Everything he pushed is being now overtly lived out in society today.

Joey:

What I find particularly interesting is that first part where do without

Joey:

wilt, which obviously is common, that's like the motto of our society and

Joey:

every man and woman is a star, I think there's a Christian element to that

Joey:

in the sense that Christianity has its version of that in that every single

Joey:

human being is made in the image of God.

Joey:

But what we mean when we say that is something totally different, in

Joey:

other words, we're all made in the image of God, but we're fallen.

Joey:

And so we need to restore ourselves back into that image through a

Joey:

right relationship with him, but for Crowley, it's every man and woman's

Joey:

in the star, and as good just as they are, you don't need anything else.

Joey:

Just do what you will.

Joey:

And so I think that's just an interesting parallel to Christianity.

Gio:

What is Christianity famous for in the sense of Christ and

Gio:

Gethsemane, he said, not my will be done, but God's will be done.

Gio:

And Crowley is just the opposite.

Gio:

He wants everybody to do whatever they want to do, no

Gio:

matter if it is detrimental.

Gio:

And this point about, bisexuality about using drugs.

Gio:

In fact, Crowley talks about that the quickest way to talk to spiritual forces

Gio:

is through, sex that isn't traditional sex under the auspice of heavily induced drugs

Gio:

and the elite are into this kind of stuff.

Gio:

One of the quotes here, talks about how the elite are into this kind of behavior.

Gio:

It says spiritualism communication with the dead and other spiritual,

Gio:

entities through seances had become popular in England and France,

Gio:

and as previously noted, an occult revival was underway in England.

Gio:

And I wrote here in the notes right around the second Great Awakening,

Gio:

tell the audience what that is and why that would seem to be important?

Joey:

The second Great awakening was a religious revival.

Joey:

I think a very good thing that happened in the United States where people,

Joey:

began reexamining the scriptures, particularly around the coming of, Jesus,

Joey:

and they started studying the Bible.

Joey:

And so what I find interesting that Crowley and that this movement

Joey:

started around that time is that for every good thing that God does,

Joey:

the devil has his counterfeit.

Joey:

I find as people are starting to study the word more.

Joey:

And that's happening at the same time there's this other

Joey:

kind of sick version of that.

Gio:

Yep.

Gio:

And the attack is always against Christianity.

Gio:

You notice he blended all these other religions to push his idea.

Gio:

But look at this quote.

Gio:

It says The prospect of adopting exotic religious practices became appealing

Gio:

to those wishing to escape the clutches of Christian moral conservatism.

Gio:

And that's because Christianity is truly the only true religion and Christianity

Gio:

it's the only worldview that explains all of society and what's going on, and yet

Gio:

everything we see, like that Sam Smith video is all going against the teachings

Gio:

of morality that are found in scripture.

Gio:

And that can be defended for the most part without even

Gio:

having to appeal to scripture.

Gio:

But they're pushing the boundaries because that is exactly

Gio:

what Crowley wanted them to.

Gio:

. Joey: And one point I wanted to make

Gio:

me of a news story I had seen about this link between, sexual practices

Gio:

and this occultism and Crowelism and particularly related to the re elites.

Gio:

For those that don't know, I think most of our audience is probably familiar

Gio:

with the W E F, the World Economic Forum and every year, it's a gathering

Gio:

of world leaders in Davo, Switzerland, where they discuss their plans for

Gio:

how we can combat things like climate change and political instability

Gio:

and all these different things.

Gio:

But one thing that I found is interesting about it, and this is an article I

Gio:

just looked up, but it's from the Daily Mail, outta uk, and it says Prostitutes.

Gio:

The headline says, prostitutes gather in Davos for annual meeting of global

Gio:

Elite where demand for sexual services rockets during economic summit, it says,

Gio:

prostitutes report a surge in business during the annual gathering of leaders.

Gio:

These are world leaders, these are presidents and prime ministers, congress

Gio:

people, people from all over the world.

Gio:

parliamentary leaders, says escorts are booked into delicates hotels

Gio:

alongside business executives, sex workers, dress in business attire.

Gio:

By the way, sex work is slavery is what it is.

Gio:

I don't care how much you're gonna pay slavery.

Gio:

And rubbed shoulders with global elite.

Gio:

I read somewhere that it's something like these elites are paying

Gio:

something like $2,500 a night.

Gio:

And so I just find that interesting that in this conversation of Crowleism

Gio:

one of his big things, part of it was this deviant sexual behavior.

Gio:

And we're seeing that among like very famous world leaders.

Gio:

We'll get to a quote that mentions that this type of behavior, this Crowlism

Gio:

is very prevalent among the elite.

Gio:

Here's another quote it says, it should also be noted that Crowley identified.

Gio:

Awiss with Satan and with Horus who is considered the ancient Egyptian

Gio:

equivalent to the Christian devil.

Gio:

And I wanna point that out because Horus in part two of this series, we're

Gio:

gonna see that Horus and his imagery is prevalent in music industry and

Gio:

they are not afraid to parade him around, I guess is the word, and it's

Gio:

the equivalent to the Christian devil.

Gio:

There was a time in this society, in our culture where the devil

Gio:

was considered a bad thing.

Gio:

And yet, based on the Grammy he was actually honored and the title

Gio:

of the song was called Unholy.

Joey:

So I think as we examine this pendulum swing, we need to

Joey:

acknowledge that wrong conceptions of God can lead people to react

Joey:

against that wrong conception of God.

Joey:

and as we combat this stuff, as we combat Crowlyism and overt satanism,

Joey:

we should put forward the true picture of God as laid out in scripture as a God

Joey:

of love, and yes, we don't soften sin, but there's the gospel, there's Christ.

Joey:

And so that can't be separated out.

Joey:

And when we actually show that picture Christ said, when I be lifted

Joey:

up, I will draw all men to myself.

Joey:

And so I think a lot of this stuff, if we look at the pain that kind of

Joey:

pushed people, we can bring people back through love and through the gospel.

Gio:

Yep.

Gio:

And I agree with you.

Gio:

We're not trying to be a Bible thumping podcast, but we have to establish

Gio:

certain things, the shock value things that we see in the Grammys.

Gio:

And this is not the first time.

Gio:

It's shocking because there is a standard.

Gio:

and they're deviating from the standard where Satan, even if you didn't

Gio:

believe in him, it was always symbolic of something bad and something that

Gio:

you did not want society to have.

Gio:

You remember in the cartoons, Tom and Jerry, you would have the good angel

Gio:

and the bad angel and the bad one always tempting you to do bad things.

Gio:

Well, now the bad angel is being embraced.

Gio:

The bad in society is being embraced, and we need to get back to where the good

Gio:

in society look, humans aren't perfect.

Gio:

Religious people have made mistake, but the closer we get back to truth, pursuing

Gio:

truth, the better it'll be for society.

Gio:

Otherwise, we are gonna keep going down this path.

Gio:

Here's that quote I've been talking about.

Gio:

So here's the author of this paper and he says this, Crowley drew quite a following

Gio:

from the British upper classes as did most other esoteric orders, pursuit of

Gio:

the occult seem to be a preoccupation that appealed mostly to segment of the elite.

Gio:

So think about that, what is one new cycle that we haven't gotten more inform on?

Gio:

Think about it for a second.

Gio:

What disappeared?

Gio:

There should have been a scandal, and we have never heard anything

Gio:

about it that deals with this kind of sexual deviant behavior.

Joey:

Yeah.

Joey:

So one news story that I think of, is recently, a couple weeks ago, our audience

Joey:

might remember, there was a story about a couple, a gay couple that adopted a child.

Joey:

And I don't even spec want to go into the specifics of some

Joey:

of the things that happened.

Joey:

It was just awful.

Joey:

But basically the couple was sexually abusing this child.

Joey:

But even more than that, they were basically pimping this, child over

Joey:

a course of a couple of years, out to various, people who did

Joey:

horrendous crimes against this kid.

Joey:

And because of the political nature of the kind of gay marriage adoption thing,

Joey:

it wasn't really talked about very much.

Joey:

So that's one story that kind of comes to mind along these lines.

Gio:

That is a horrific story that didn't really, get much airtime

Gio:

and it should have people can say that's an isolated story.

Gio:

That it happened.

Gio:

Just that, and we shouldn't impugn on anybody else because of an isolated story.

Gio:

There's another story that's been washed under the rugs Epstein

Gio:

and the elite what happened?

Joey:

He totally killed himself.

Gio:

Yeah.

Gio:

Nobody believes that.

Gio:

Not even Hillary Clinton, but . But the thing is, what about the Epstein?

Gio:

So what we just saw, that this kind of occult appeals to

Gio:

the elite Epstein we know was trafficking children in some island.

Gio:

We know that there are people high up who were on the Lolita Express.

Gio:

In fact, there was a comedian who kind of ripped into Hollywood

Gio:

about flying on Epstein's plane.

Gio overdub:

Epstein Gets convicted, he gets put in jail.

Gio overdub:

All of a sudden the cameras don't work.

Gio overdub:

All of a sudden, the guards fell asleep.

Gio overdub:

He ends up, quote, unquote killing himself.

Gio overdub:

Yet the list of everybody on that plane has conveniently disappeared.

Gio overdub:

There's something, and we have seen enough of drops of hints in the

Gio overdub:

news that the elite are caught up in this kind of deviant behavior.

Gio:

You had mentioned to me in a text about, what's that clothing company?

Joey:

Balenciaga.

Gio:

Yeah, exactly.

Joey:

Yeah, so Balenciaga.

Joey:

They've been a very fancy, high-end, clothing and luxury designer

Joey:

clothing outfit for some time.

Joey:

They've had, a lot of famous, spokespeople, but specifically,

Joey:

Kim Kardashian and Kanye West, who's obviously got a lot of

Joey:

controversy himself right now.

Joey:

was this a couple of months ago now?

Joey:

A couple of new cycles ago.

Joey:

they got caught up in, they had a photo shoot that went out and it had children,

Joey:

it depicted children with teddy bears, like in B D S M, like sexual kink wear.

Joey:

And it was like explicitly sexual and had children in it.

Joey:

And then, so obviously people rightly reacted to that, and then

Joey:

Balenciaga apologized and said, oh, this should never have happened.

Joey:

I don't think multimillion dollar companies accidentally

Joey:

put out photo shoots.

Joey:

I don't think that's a thing that generally happens, so

Joey:

it was just very interesting.

Gio:

Listen to this quote.

Gio:

Remember what I had mentioned, in the beginning with the Sam Smith

Gio:

video that the other artist said that Sam was her angel?

Gio:

Listen to what Crowley talks about in qoute , it says, while employing

Gio:

severe meditational practices, along with very liberal use of drugs and sex,

Gio:

several visitors came for instruction and thalamic philosophy to participate

Gio:

in rituals, designed to bring them in communion with their holy guardian angel.

Gio:

And this is a theme in Crowley.

Gio:

Every person who is deep into this occult has this angel

Gio:

that guides them in their path.

Gio:

And Sam Smith was alluded to be her angel things that make you go hmmm.

Gio:

But this is common.

Gio:

And if you look at the music industry, there are many

Gio:

songs that talk about angels.

Gio:

And here's a hint that Crowley talks about, that every person has this angel.

Gio:

Now, there's something we believe in as well in Christianity, that

Gio:

we all have a guardian angel.

Gio:

However, this is the angel from the other side.

Joey:

I didn't wanna make one comment.

Joey:

Sometimes I think.

Joey:

while we talk about these explicit displays, with a certain class

Joey:

of our elite, in Hollywood and politics and stuff, I think we

Joey:

need to be careful too, though.

Joey:

, a lot of this influence is not.

Joey:

So there are explicit people and we're gonna explore that who say, we're

Joey:

disciples of Crowley, but a lot of this influence is absolved, culturally.

Joey:

So it's like these influence or are influencing people, but

Joey:

not necessarily explicitly.

Joey:

And so I think sometimes people can look.

Joey:

Say it like, you know, everyone in Congress, they're just awful

Joey:

and they're just, whatever.

Joey:

They're bad.

Joey:

Every world leader, they're just bad.

Joey:

And they're just awful people.

Joey:

And it's this satanic conspiracy.

Joey:

I think in most cases it's not that.

Joey:

And I don't think we should have necessarily a completely cynical,

Joey:

outlook towards our leaders.

Joey:

We just need to be acknowledged that these themes exist and

Joey:

that there have been these.

Joey:

And so when we see this sexualization, we know what's behind it and

Joey:

where these ideas come from.

Joey:

But it's not necessarily like an explicit conspiracy, I think in most cases.

Gio:

Yeah, I think it's about influence influence is subtle.

Gio:

A lot of people are under this influence.

Gio:

Some of them are overt, and we'll see that in part two.

Gio:

But for the most part it is subtle.

Gio:

But people like Sam Smith, that is just blatant, his little, dance routine

Gio:

there and the title of his song, but many of them who follow him, or many

Gio:

of them who are his fans, they don't see the subtleness of their influence.

Gio:

This next middle quote, it says this, his image at the urging of John

Gio:

Lennon, speaking of Crowley, was used on the cover of the Beatles Sergeant

Gio:

Pepper Lonely Hearts Club Band album.

Gio:

This seemed to serve as a catalyst that contributed to Crowley's, posthumous

Gio:

designation as a countercultural icon.

Gio:

So in the sixties when Crowley is being revived, all these artists are diving

Gio:

into, now look, we address atheists, but for the most part, the majority

Gio:

of people believe in the spiritual.

Gio:

They may not believe Christianity the way we believe it.

Gio:

They may not be conservative as we are, but they believe in the

Gio:

spiritual world, and all these artists are tapping into something.

Gio:

Crowley is teaching because they Find that there is something real

Gio:

behind it, and Joey and I are not denying that there is something

Gio:

real behind it, but it's dangerous.

Gio:

It's satanic and it's going to lead to ultimate harm to everybody

Gio:

who's influence under that.

Gio:

Let's keep going here.

Gio:

After this 1904 experience with the supernatural entity ours, Crowley

Gio:

believed himself to be the prophet of the coming age of Horas, and once

Gio:

again, He puts us in religious terms.

Gio:

Here's this writer of this paper, using that.

Gio:

Crowley was a prophet.

Gio:

Well, a prophet is there to influence people, and boy has he influenced people.

Gio:

In 1970 Jimmy Page, the songwriter guitarist of Led Zeppelin,

Gio:

second only to the Beatles in terms of total record sales.

Gio:

Amassed the largest collection of Crowley memorabilia and often

Gio:

Osmond Spark artwork in the world.

Gio:

Do what thou will pressed into his vinyl record.

Gio:

So let me ask you the question.

Gio:

Why would you put that in your vinyl record when you know that

Gio:

this guy was an evolved satanist?

Joey:

It appeals to our cardinal heart.

Joey:

Right.

Joey:

and this is something that I'm gonna say that I think has affected a

Joey:

certain strain of American politics on both the right and the left.

Joey:

And again, I love liberty and I love freedom, and I think that's

Joey:

what this country was founded on.

Joey:

But we like that.

Joey:

And in recent years, that's all we want, we don't want to talk.

Joey:

Our duty, right?

Joey:

We don't want to talk about responsibility because that means that there's a

Joey:

higher moral order that we should be accountable to with our liberty.

Joey:

Like what do we do with it?

Joey:

And so I think Crowley's phrase, like even if somebody doesn't

Joey:

know anything about Crowley, his history, they're not a crow leite.

Joey:

But that phrase is appealing to the carnal human heart because

Joey:

it's like, Hey, do what thou wil.

Joey:

Right?

Joey:

That's your life philosophy and I think that's why it's been

Joey:

so resonant in our culture.

Gio:

A couple of more quotes, to wrap up the scholarly, episode, he says, Crowley

Gio:

was the founder of religion, known as Thelema which still has a following,

Gio:

but his presence is largely felt through the world of contemporary witchcraft.

Gio:

That alone should scare everybody because we believe the majority of

Gio:

people believe the spirituality is a real thing, that there is good and evil,

Gio:

and his teachings are influential in witchcraft, which has become more and

Gio:

more readily acceptable in society.

Gio:

The fact was perhaps intentionally downplayed by some of the foundational

Gio:

figures of modern witchcraft so that Crowley's reputation would not become

Gio:

a stumbling block in the password towards mainstream acceptance.

Gio:

Imagine this.

Gio:

Christians trying to hide who Jesus is yet still claim Christianity.

Gio:

If Crowley was a good person, then why is witchcraft trying to hide

Gio:

who their biggest influence is?

Gio:

That doesn't make any sense.

Joey:

I'm gonna go to the words of Jesus, it says, tho those who do

Joey:

right do not need to fear the light.

Joey:

It's evil doers.

Joey:

That fear the light.

Joey:

When we make, political cases for things that we think should be done, we don't

Joey:

appeal directly to scripture, obviously, and we've laid that out in other episodes.

Joey:

But we're also, we're not gonna hide the fact that we have Christian values

Joey:

because I think those values are good.

Joey:

I think the idea that there's worth in human being is a good thing,

Joey:

I think that we can be explicit about where our values come.

Joey:

Because there's nothing to be ashamed of there.

Joey:

I believe the more exposure Christianity gets like true Christianity, the better,

Joey:

the more attractive it's gonna be.

Joey:

So I want there to be light on it.

Joey:

I don't want there to be any secrets there.

Joey:

but when you're dealing with darkness, when you're dealing with the works of

Joey:

iniquity and darker elements, especially when you think of these sexual kind of

Joey:

deviancy and I think this kind of goes back to Romans chapter one, which we

Joey:

talked about in our natural law episode, where God has given us all a conscience.

Joey:

and we know that these things are wrong.

Joey:

And so that's why if you want to change culture in this way, you have

Joey:

to do it secretly and dishonestly.

Gio:

Here's another quote.

Gio:

It says, Crowley, if anything was one of the foremost figures of the 20th

Gio:

century who led the charge towards some of the social, religious, and sexual

Gio:

freedoms that we enjoy in the 21st.

Gio:

Century, the suggestion that it is deserving of more attention

Gio:

in the area of contemporary religious history and culture.

Gio:

In other words, this paper is advocating that Crowley should get

Gio:

more respect and more acknowledgement.

Gio:

But look at what he led.

Gio:

The paper said he led to the push of more soul, religious, and sexual freedoms.

Gio:

Well, Freedoms without responsibilities that we have mentioned is not always good.

Gio:

You can take freedom to excess.

Gio:

And we see society today from the sixties till now, how the moral,

Gio:

decay of the country has taken place.

Joey:

I agree with everything you're saying.

Joey:

Think that's where it's important for us to give people a contrast

Joey:

so it's one thing, to talk about the darkness, but we have a better story.

Joey:

there is a better way.

Joey:

Certainly our culture has had better times.

Joey:

I believe, and I know we both would agree that this country was in many

Joey:

ways, founded on Christian principles, not in the way that certain modern

Joey:

Christian nationalists wanna say

Joey:

In a authoritarian way, but its conception of liberty, the good

Joey:

kind, with responsibility.

Joey:

This was an outgrowth of Protestant Christianity.

Joey:

I think when we're looking at these negative aspects like crow.

Joey:

and, magic and, the occult that's affecting our society.

Joey:

I think it's good to acknowledge that there's a good side right there.

Joey:

There is something, there's a good alternative to these things.

Gio:

Yep.

Gio:

There's an ideal to reach.

Gio:

And regardless, there are many atheists on record saying that the notion that we're

Gio:

all created equal comes from Christianity, and this day and age society's

Gio:

pushing us away from Christian values.

Gio:

Let's close with this last quote that you sent me that had a profound

Gio:

way to end this first episode.

Joey:

Yeah, this quote is from, a theologian by the name of Alvin

Joey:

Plantinga, and he says, the existence of God is neither precluded nor rendered,

Joey:

improbable by the existence of evil.

Joey:

Of course, suffering in misfortune may nonetheless constitute

Joey:

a problem for the theist.

Joey:

But the problem is not that his beliefs are logically or

Joey:

probabilistically incompatible.

Joey:

The theist may find a religious problem in evil in the presence of his own

Joey:

suffering or that of someone near to him.

Joey:

He may find it difficult to maintain what he takes to be

Joey:

the proper attitude towards God.

Joey:

Faced with great personal suffering in misfortune, he may be tempted

Joey:

to rebel against God to shake his fist in God's face or to even

Joey:

give up belief in God altogether.

Joey:

But this is a problem of a different dimension.

Joey:

Such a problem calls not for the philosophical enlightenment,

Joey:

but for pastoral care.

Joey:

The free will Defense, however, shows that the existence of God is compatible

Joey:

both logically and probabilistically, , with the existence of evil.

Joey:

Thus, it solves the main philosophical problem of evil.

Joey:

And that's from Alvin Planter's book, God Freedom and Evil.

Joey:

And the reason why in this discussion of Crowley, that quote stuck out

Joey:

at me is because in Crowley's doctrine of Do what thou Wilt, and

Joey:

this hedonistic freedom, we see an inversion of God's belief in free will.

Joey:

God created a universe where human beings do have free will, we have the right,

Joey:

as people, we can choose to worship God, or we can choose the other side, which

Joey:

is ultimately worshiping Satan, there's not a middle ground there, but God

Joey:

gives us that freedom, and so I think.

Joey:

As an inverse to Crowley's Do what the wilt right.

Joey:

Crowley takes for free will.

Joey:

And he says, just do what you want live for you.

Joey:

I think of another philosopher, the Marqui toad who on the sexual front

Joey:

took this to the ultimate conclusion and said, you should just do whatever

Joey:

brings you sexual fulfillment.

Joey:

but on God's side I love this quote because God does give us that freedom.

Joey:

God is not the authoritarian in chief, God's ultimate purpose is love.

Joey:

That's who he is.

Joey:

And love requires freedom.

Joey:

I forget where I heard it, but I love the quote, is like, we've

Joey:

got a dirty word for forced love in our society, and it's rape.

Joey:

God's not a cosmic rapist.

Joey:

God is a lover, God wants our freely chosen decision to follow him.

Joey:

And so as we're thinking about Crowley, a good way to wrap up is remember that

Joey:

like God's never gonna force you to worship him, you shouldn't try to force

Joey:

other people to worship him because that wouldn't be worship anyway.

Joey:

so just present that picture of Christ and him crucified.

Joey:

And I think that's an attractive picture.

Joey:

I think that's an attractive alternative to, crowleyism

Gio:

as we wrap up this episode, you can see from this paper and we'll put a link

Gio:

in the YouTube channel and we will put a link in the show notes for this paper.

Gio:

You could read it yourself.

Gio:

It was about 66 pages and the guy was sympathetic towards Crowley, but he

Gio:

shows that Crowley has influenced all of society and in part two, we're gonna see

Gio:

real world examples of what that is like.

Gio:

And the appeal from us is that, that stuff is dangerous.

Gio:

Crowley is dangerous ultimately to your own happiness and ultimately

Gio:

to the happiness of society.

Gio:

It goes totally contrary to truth.

Gio:

And what we want is truth.

Gio:

The atheist should want to pursue truth.

Gio:

The religious person should want to pursue truth, and the Christian

Gio:

obviously wants to pursue truth.

Gio:

Truth is what matters, and ultimately that truth is found in the teachings

Gio:

and person of Jesus Christ.

Gio:

Stay tuned for episode two, which will be dropping next Friday.

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About the Podcast

Gio & Joey
Talking cultural, political, social issues from a Protestant perspective
This podcast will explore our culture, news and other current events, from a Protestant world view. Too often we don't know how to do that in a secular world. We will talk about how we live out our world view in our day to day lives, how our protestant tradition should inform our interactions with the media, news and events that take place in our lives!