Episode 3

full
Published on:

27th Jan 2023

Talking Sex and Culture

In this episode Gio and Joey talk about Sex and Culture. There is a book titled by that name by J.D. Unwin Yet what we are discussing is an article about its findings written by Kirk Durston and can be found here Titled Why Sexual Morality May be Far More important than You Ever Thought. He masterfully summarizes the findings of J.D. Unwin. Sex and Culture is a 600 page book. The book can be found here: Sex and Culture. Furthermore, here is a great quote about the article.

"Both Unwin and Eberstadt provide substantial evidence that a sexual revolution has long-term, devastating consequences for culture and civilization.” K Durston

Finally we supplement the discussion in our video with two video clips of a powerful must watch video titled The Case Against the Sexual Revolution | Louise Perry 165

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Until next time keep fighting the good fight.

Gio & Joey

Transcript
Gio:

Welcome everybody to another episode of Gio and Joey's show welcome Joey.

Gio:

How are you doing today?

Joey:

I'm doing good.

Joey:

I'm glad to be here.

Joey:

So Gio, what are we gonna be talking about today?

Gio:

We are gonna be talking about a wonderful article by, scholar

Gio:

long time ago named JD Unwin and he spoke about what sexuality,

Gio:

means to society and when sexuality changes, what it means to a nation.

Gio:

And we'll explore that.

Gio:

But Joey, I know you have a couple of video clips you want to talk about later.

Gio:

What are those gonna be about?

Joey:

basically same topic.

Joey:

There's a English writer, Louise Perry.

Joey:

She's actually cons, I think she still considers herself a feminist,

Joey:

although a kind of unorthodox feminist.

Joey:

And then she's on with, Jordan Peterson's daughter Mikayla.

Joey:

And they have a discussion that kind of fits it's, fits perfectly with

Joey:

the article and unwinds, ideas.

Joey:

So I thought it would be good to explore that as well.

Gio:

Let me set up the article and why we're talking about it,

Gio:

because obviously in today's society, sexuality is a big issue.

Gio:

We see it all in the news.

Gio:

We see it in debates with schools.

Gio:

And what this article we're gonna look at explores this book title, sex and culture.

Gio:

And we decided to break down the article instead of the book because the book

Gio:

is like 600 pages long, to be honest.

Gio:

And so we wanna keep this semi brief.

Gio:

The article is a great exposition of what the book Sex and Culture is talking about.

Gio:

And so we're gonna dive into it and discuss some of the, quotes

Gio:

by, , Kirk Durston, "Why Sexuality, morality may be far more important

Gio:

than you ever thought", and in this day and age, it's a hot topic.

Gio:

Here is the first quote I wanna bring up.

Gio:

It says, this is what Unwin discovered.

Gio:

He says, unwind examines the data from 86 societies and civilizations to see

Gio:

if there's a relationship between sexual freedom and the flourishing of culture.

Gio:

What makes the book especially interesting is that we in the West underwent a

Gio:

sexual revolution in the late sixties, seventies, and eighties and are now

Gio:

in a position to test the conclusions he arrived at more than 40 years ago.

Gio:

And this is why this excites me because Unwin concluded that when a

Gio:

nation's sexual morality goes downhill within three generations, which

Gio:

for him is about between 90 and a hundred years, you'll see the decline

Gio:

of the nation and it's inevitable.

Gio:

, well, guess what folks?

Gio:

We are in the time where we should be seeing the conclusions

Gio:

that Unwin broke down, and sadly we are starting to see them.

Joey:

The thing that was most interesting to me when we were going over this article

Joey:

was Unwin wrote his book in the 1930s.

Joey:

That's before the sexual revolution, and yet all the things that he

Joey:

lays out and he says, we're seeing

Joey:

it played out that way.

Joey:

Exactly.

Joey:

So I just think the kind of prophetic like insight almost that he's

Joey:

had here is what's so remarkable.

Gio:

Yeah.

Gio:

It's amazing you use the word prophetic because even though we're not gonna be

Gio:

appealing to scripture here, it almost does have a prophetic insight and it does

Gio:

match with what this podcast is all about.

Gio:

What we are arguing about, the natural law has its consequences.

Gio:

And when we avoid those, or when we discard those better yet and

Gio:

we begin to see the consequences.

Gio:

Let's go back to the next quote.

Gio:

Here are certain conclusions and findings.

Gio:

He says, increased sexual constraint, either pre or post-nuptial always led

Gio:

to increased flourishing of a culture.

Gio:

But in the green, listen to what he says.

Gio:

Conversely, increased sexual freedom always led to the collapse of a

Gio:

culture three generations later.

Joey:

I think it was in the seventies when like the birth control pill came

Joey:

out and then obviously 1973 we saw Ro vs.

Joey:

Wade made the law of the land.

Joey:

What that did, not perfectly, but what that did was kind of separate,

Joey:

at least in American's minds, sex from parenting, sex from responsibility, which

Joey:

ultimately separated it from marriage.

Joey:

Obviously what we saw coming out of that right, is because these

Joey:

methods are not foolproof, right?

Joey:

Birth control is not foolproof.

Joey:

All these things.

Joey:

We saw an explosion.

Joey:

So even though technically the technology was there that made it so

Joey:

that, you could prevent pregnancy or whatever, we actually saw an explosion.

Joey:

out of wedlock births because these methods aren't perfect.

Joey:

But yet people were still now engaging in this behavior more.

Joey:

One thing that, not in the Clipse that we're gonna show, but one thing

Joey:

that was brought out in the interview that we're gonna be talking about

Joey:

later was how out of wed lock's birth originally there used to be a

Joey:

concept called the shotgun wedding,

Joey:

which is, if people had sex out outside of marriage, there was a social expectation

Joey:

that then they would get married to raise this kid but as birth control became

Joey:

more common, and as it became there kind of started to be a social disconnect here

Joey:

between sex and responsibility, blame, started getting put on a woman you must

Joey:

have not been on the pill or whatever.

Joey:

And so it just, Exacerbated and to we'd see that like the old way, right?

Joey:

Where you put these restraints on, we say if you do make a mistake or

Joey:

whatever, you know, we're fallen humans, but you gotta be responsible for it.

Joey:

And when that was more the case, I think that was better for children.

Joey:

But what we're seeing now is just an explosion of like fatherless homes.

Joey:

And I don't think that leads to a free society ultimately.

Gio:

Yeah.

Gio:

And I remember the quote you're talking about, even though we're not

Gio:

gonna share it in this podcast, I remember thinking about that, about

Gio:

the shotgun wedding and something you alluded to is that when women began

Gio:

to take the pill, it freed them.

Gio:

In quotes to have more sexual partners, where at that point if

Gio:

there was a mistake, the guy was claiming, who's to say it's my child?

Gio:

And at that time, there were no paternity tests like we have today.

Gio:

And so the video goes on to say, it allowed for dead deadbeat dads to get

Gio:

away with it, and it became a hassle.

Gio:

And so it put women more in a bind as the video says, and we'll get

Gio:

back to the article here, the single mothers are high on the poverty list.

Gio:

Why?

Gio:

Because dads are escaping and shirking at responsibility.

Gio:

So this is not just on the women, it's also on the men who have lost

Gio:

their sense of duty and responsibility if they father a child to be

Gio:

responsible for the wife, the mother of the child, and for the child.

Gio:

Let's look at the second half of this quote.

Gio:

It says the single most influential factor Unwin went on to say was, surprisingly,

Gio:

the data revealed that the single most important correlation with the flourishing

Gio:

of a culture, whether prenuptial, chastity was required or not, it had

Gio:

a very significant effect either way.

Gio:

So what does he mean by this?

Gio:

What he means by this is if sex was, reserved for marriage.

Gio:

When society had that notion, the society thrived when sex just became for pleasure

Gio:

and to have it wherever you want, whenever you want, regardless of responsibility.

Gio:

Society declined

Joey:

And we see that, right?

Joey:

Like right now, I think of it was a couple years ago, I think it was like

Joey:

20 15, 20 16, there was a show that used to be on Fox News called Redeye.

Joey:

And they had this program where they would have people of

Joey:

different views and stuff come on.

Joey:

And I remember there was the comedian, the liberal comedian, Amy Schumer,

Joey:

who I think is actually like a niece.

Joey:

Chuck Schumer from the Senate, and political commentator from the right.

Joey:

Stephen Crowder was on, and they were having a conversation about, chastity.

Joey:

And he was unmarried at the time and he was making the point that

Joey:

he was waiting till marriage and everyone this is Fox News, right?

Joey:

This is supposed to be a right wing.

Joey:

Even the host kinda laughed at it and made a joke.

Joey:

They weren't making fun of him, but it was like, it was kinda making

Joey:

this weird, but Amy got into this little sparring match with him.

Joey:

It was mostly friendly, but it was like the sparring match was like,

Joey:

nah, that's just weird, right?

Joey:

So in other words, we're already singing our culture where we're far beyond,

Joey:

the point where, chastity and reserving for marriage has become, has long.

Joey:

Been thrown away as the norm.

Gio:

And when you couple Waiting till marriage with this next quote, the most

Gio:

powerful combination for the thriving of a nation un when concluded was prenuptial

Gio:

chastity coupled with absolute monogamy.

Gio:

And what are some of the things we're seeing in today's society?

Gio:

Open marriages, polla, Morris marriages.

Gio:

And when you begin to degrade, the nuclear family Unwin concluded in

Gio:

all 86 nations that the decline is inevitable in three generations.

Joey:

I think it's true.

Joey:

We're not gonna be, a podcast that's, partisan,

Joey:

We gotta criticize both sides and we can see this has affected both sides of the

Joey:

aisle, republican conservatives, many of them have kind of the same issues with

Joey:

the sexual revolution that the left has.

Joey:

I forget who was it that said it, but somebody said it's like

Joey:

something about Republicans or just progressives driving the speed limit,

Joey:

but everybody's pushing us to the left

Joey:

even going back to the nineties, it was a big deal for Republicans and

Joey:

conservatives that President Bill Clinton had an affair in the White House.

Joey:

And that was a big deal.

Joey:

That was something they were saying, no, this isn't right.

Joey:

We want moral standards for our leaders and, for whatever reasons,

Joey:

there can be prudential reasons to support somebody in an election, but

Joey:

the last Republican president was not a exemplar of a sexual purity.

Joey:

it's just kind of interesting how we've gone from the nineties and Clinton to

Joey:

Trump in the, you know, the two thousands.

Joey:

They're very similar men in that way.

Gio:

And no doubt what you were saying, this is not a partisan, , podcast.

Gio:

It's true.

Gio:

When it comes to many on the Republican side, they just hide their deviancy better

Gio:

and they hide it under a cloud sometimes of conservatism, just because they think

Gio:

it'll be popular with their constituents.

Gio:

But sexuality, It is a problem for both of the left and the right and

Gio:

without appealing to scripture, we have to see that Unwin's conclusion.

Gio:

By the way, Unwin wasn't a religious person and his conclusions are backed by

Gio:

facts and data and studying 86 societies.

Gio:

And so when we deviate from the nuclear family, when we begin to

Gio:

destroy the nuclear family, we begin to destroy society and it's

Gio:

almost like a self-inflicting wound.

Gio:

Let's keep going on this article when strict chastity was no longer

Gio:

the norm, absolute monogamy, deism and rational thinking also

Gio:

disappeared within three generations.

Gio:

And boy, are we seeing that now where words no longer have

Gio:

the meaning they used to have.

Gio:

Where people do not know today what is a,

Gio:

what is

Joey:

a woman quote?

Joey:

Matt Walsh.

Gio:

Yeah, exactly right.

Gio:

It's incredible.

Gio:

A simple biology, is no longer taken for granted, and it's because people

Gio:

have made sexuality, the all-encompassing reason for their life, and sexuality

Gio:

is just a part of a normal human being.

Gio:

It shouldn't be the central, and yet we see that in society today.

Joey:

Everywhere in our culture, right?

Joey:

It's k from the entertainment that we watch, things that we now would

Joey:

consider PG 13 would've been considered like absolutely lewd and obscene

Joey:

to like our parents' generation or our grandparents' generation.

Joey:

It probably would've been a town uprising.

Joey:

Those standards have eroded.

Joey:

And we've seen, this, all throughout our society.

Gio:

Look at this next, almost prophetic quote.

Gio:

It says, if total sexual freedom was embraced by a culture, that culture

Gio:

collapsed within three generations to the lowest state of flourishing.

Gio:

And it's characterized by people who have little interests in much else

Gio:

other than their own wants and needs.

Gio:

That is, to me, describing society today, isn't it?

Gio:

Where everybody is after, what's good for me and not for

Joey:

the whole.

Joey:

Absolutely.

Joey:

And I think this kind of goes into a conversation of what is liberty,

Joey:

Both sides of the political aisle.

Joey:

We like talking about freedom and liberty.

Joey:

We have different conceptions of that, but we're always talking about

Joey:

it from the perspective of my rights.

Joey:

And don't get me wrong, I believe in rights.

Joey:

I believe in natural rights.

Joey:

But every right is coupled with a responsibility.

Joey:

I think Michael Knowles kinda laid this out well, on a daily wire we said

Joey:

the left has been pushing for ultimate individual rights in regard to sexuality.

Joey:

But the right has been pushing for ultimate individual rights

Joey:

with the economy and stuff.

Joey:

But nobody wants to talk about what do those rights mean we have to do,

Joey:

what is our responsibility here?

Joey:

And I think, that's just another example of this playing out in other areas.

Gio:

another way to say, what our responsibilities are.

Gio:

It's what's our duty?

Gio:

Each of us in our individual freedom still has a duty to those around us.

Gio:

And it starts where as a man, as a father, it starts in my family circle.

Gio:

I have a duty to my wife.

Gio:

I have a duty to my three daughters.

Gio:

And then beyond that, I have a duty to my neighbors, to love my

Gio:

neighbor as I would want him to love me and beyond my neighbors.

Gio:

Then I have a duty as a citizen and encompassing all of that,

Gio:

our duty is to pursue truth.

Gio:

Truth has to win out because if you have your own truth and I have my own

Gio:

truth, well, we're starting to see the ramifications of that in society today.

Gio:

I saw a picture of something that is not biologically real.

Gio:

Look at this What does it say?

Joey:

People have periods

Gio:

that is incorrect.

Gio:

Women have periods, and no matter what kind of surgery you

Gio:

wanna have, women have periods.

Gio:

And that's the desire of my wants and needs.

Gio:

The supersede reality.

Gio:

And that can't happen.

Joey:

I,

Joey:

I wanna be very clear, I think the people in that photo, I'm not

Joey:

gonna say transgender people, right?

Joey:

Because that kind of implies that the thesis is true.

Joey:

But people with gender dysphoria, so I like to, phrase it these are

Joey:

people who are hurting, I believe.

Joey:

I'm not laughing at them, but I'm laughing at the culture that takes this seriously,

Joey:

Because it's not a serious culture,

Joey:

in other words, if we were a serious culture, we'd try to help these people.

Joey:

We'd try to help them see themselves in relation to reality I know it's been

Joey:

said before, but it's like if you have an anorexic person, this is a person

Joey:

who believes that they're fat, right?

Joey:

You don't help that person by confirming that they're fat and sending

Joey:

'em more into an eating complex.

Joey:

You help them see reality that they're not fat and that they're actually

Joey:

in danger of dying because they're starving themself or whatever.

Joey:

I view gender dysphoria in much the same way.

Gio:

And for the audience, Joey and I, what is the end game?

Gio:

The end game for anything that is contrary to nature is to love them.

Gio:

To love them enough to tell them the truth, to love them enough that

Gio:

they can find a desire to pursue truth at any cost to themselves.

Gio:

And I had a conversation yesterday with my wife and I wanna share

Gio:

this with you, we heard someone say that when it comes to obesity,

Gio:

they don't have a choice, that it's genetically wired into their, biology.

Gio:

And it's because the propensity to overeat comes natural to them.

Gio:

But that's just it.

Gio:

We as a society have been accustomed to think that choices that are

Gio:

good for us are always easy.

Gio:

and they're not I am naturally a night owl.

Gio:

I would love to stay up till one o'clock, two o'clock in the morning.

Gio:

I could doing work and research, but I make the decision to go to bed early

Gio:

because I know it's best for me, even though it's not my natural propensity.

Gio:

People have this idea that working out doesn't come naturally.

Gio:

It doesn't come naturally to me either, and I work out six days a week.

Gio:

We have to make choices when we know therefore are good regardless

Gio:

of how we feel about them.

Gio:

Any thoughts on that notion?

Gio:

The choices aren't always easy.

Joey:

I agree with that and right.

Joey:

The whole conversation has been about like if you are born with something

Joey:

or if you're born with a propensity to something that therefore precludes choice.

Joey:

that's just not true,

Joey:

we're all born fallen, right?

Joey:

We're all born sinful.

Joey:

And yet, because, and again, this is, we're not gonna get into the biblical

Joey:

side of it, but as Christians, we believe that, you know, we can

Joey:

have a newness of life, right?

Joey:

Obviously, I believe that's in Christ, but I, for my atheist, brothers and sisters,

Joey:

my Jewish brothers, some sisters, they can also strive to live a better life.

Joey:

And I see it every day.

Joey:

There's plenty of atheist people who give up drinking, or give up smoking,

Joey:

make improvements in their life.

Joey:

You can be born with a propensity for alcohol, but generally speaking,

Joey:

if you become an alcoholic, you engaged in drinking, then any natural

Joey:

desire that you have towards alcohol, that doesn't excuse you from.

Joey:

Misusing it and abusing your family.

Joey:

You know what I mean?

Joey:

You still mm-hmm.

Joey:

have agency even if you're born with, and you are born with propensity to wrong.

Gio:

I know you and myself, we have our propensities, but we have to fight

Gio:

against 'em because either we have a duty to our family, we have a duty to

Gio:

ourselves, or we have a duty to society.

Gio:

And that's excluding the fact that ultimately you and I have a duty to God.

Gio:

But truth, it's never going to be easy.

Gio:

The pursuit of true has to be priority number one.

Gio:

I'll state to the atheist, they pursue truth.

Gio:

And I'm glad for that.

Gio:

Continue though, to pursue truth and it will lead you.

Gio:

To the truth and we'll get into that some other day.

Gio:

Now I'm gonna share with the audience a quote that really you enjoyed.

Gio:

So go ahead and read it and then tell us why you enjoyed that quote.

Joey:

The history of these societies consists of a series of monotonous

Joey:

repetitions, and it is difficult to decide which aspect of the story is

Joey:

the more significant, the lam nable lack of original thought, which in

Joey:

each case the reformers displayed, or the amazing ity with which after

Joey:

a period of intense compulsory c.

Joey:

Sexual restraint.

Joey:

The human organism seizes the earliest opportunity to satisfy its innate

Joey:

desires in a direct or perverted manner.

Joey:

Sometimes a man has been heard to declare that he wishes to both to enjoy the

Joey:

advantages of high culture and to abolish, particularly that first line there, right?

Joey:

Where it says the history of these societies consist of a series of

Joey:

monotonous repetitions he was talking specifically there about culture.

Joey:

And I think what I found so interesting about that is when you look at our

Joey:

culture, you look at the movies we produce, the shows we produce,

Joey:

they're all kind of the same, right?

Joey:

There's a lack of creativity.

Joey:

in our culture.

Joey:

I know on Netflix, I was just saying an ad for that nineties show and I, I watched

Joey:

like an episode or whatever where it's like, it's a repeat of another show.

Joey:

And we do that all the time.

Joey:

I know A fuller house.

Joey:

It's a repeat of full house from the eighties.

Joey:

And we look at all these Disney movies and all the biggest names are like

Joey:

either live remakes or just total remakes of movies from gone past.

Joey:

We see that in a culture.

Joey:

I think it was Andrew Clavin also who said there hasn't been a good movie

Joey:

made in like 30 years or something.

Joey:

What we see is that our culture is actually becoming less creative.

Joey:

And I think that goes to this.

Joey:

In other words, the stories we're trying to tell, they have to be the same story.

Joey:

And it has to serve a narrative.

Joey:

I know, and by the way, I support the work that this group does.

Joey:

The Christian movie company, they've got a, anyway, they've

Joey:

got a subscription network.

Joey:

Their name is escaping me.

Joey:

Pure Flex, but, uh, pure Flex.

Joey:

Yes, pure Flex.

Joey:

And I know, you know, there's like the God Not Dead movies and I support what

Joey:

they're doing and they're creating family friendly content and all that.

Joey:

But for years, Christians, that's kind of been what Christian art has been.

Joey:

In other words, rather than talk about truth, rather than tell a true story, the

Joey:

message is central, so in other words, the art is the message, so it's all

Joey:

that, rather than just telling a story.

Joey:

And that story imbibe truth,

Joey:

because it's a true story.

Joey:

Mm-hmm.

Joey:

What we're seeing now, the left actually has always been better.

Joey:

At storytelling I'm not gonna say always, but in modern

Joey:

society, the left has been better.

Joey:

But now what we're seeing with woke entertainment and stuff is

Joey:

that they're doing the same thing.

Joey:

This falling into the same trap that some Christian entertainment fell

Joey:

in, where they're so invested in their priors that that's the story.

Joey:

Even if it's not true.

Joey:

I think of one example is female heroes in movies.

Joey:

Female heroes in movies these days, they're not feminine heroes,

Joey:

they're just masculine heroes.

Joey:

But as women, before it was Sylvester Stallone was the action hero.

Joey:

Now it's Charise Theron, and it's this feminist narrative that's gotta play

Joey:

out . Because the thing with acting, the audience has to suspend belief

Joey:

no matter what because it's acting.

Joey:

But now they're asking us to suspend belief to a level

Joey:

that's just kind of ridiculous.

Joey:

And I think two things, I think that opens up an avenue for

Joey:

Christians and Christian content creators to tell legitimate stories.

Joey:

I think of an example, Mel Gibson has made a couple of movies lately.

Joey:

One of 'em, a couple years back, he made Hacksaw Ridge where he made a movie

Joey:

about, a true story about a veteran who from World War ii, who actually

Joey:

won the Congressional Medal of Honor.

Joey:

But the movie wasn't like preaching Christianity.

Joey:

And yet I thought the movie was uplifting just because of

Joey:

the way the story was told.

Joey:

And so I think if we take a lesson from that, And we, practice chastity

Joey:

because that's what unwind is making.

Joey:

The point is, is that when we don't, and we just unrestraint our

Joey:

freedoms, we lose that creativity because ultimately I believe all true

Joey:

creativity comes from a higher source.

Gio:

When we try to be sexually free, we also want the loving and the

Gio:

caring and the love and the sense of companionship and built together that we.

Gio:

When we had a monogamous, society, but you can't have both.

Gio:

Sexual revolution is so addicting society, kind of knows, is headed

Gio:

down a precipice, yet they can't seem to stop themselves and

Gio:

you can't have it both ways.

Gio:

And that's where I was talking about earlier that choices aren't always easy.

Gio:

What's good for you and what's good for society.

Gio:

Sometimes you have to make hard choices and society doesn't seem to have the

Gio:

willpower to make those hard choices.

Gio:

And when we coward to people with fringe ideas that aren't based on

Gio:

reality, we're not doing society ourselves or them any good.

Gio:

Agreed.

Gio:

. Let's look at this next quote here where he goes down and begins

Gio:

to make certain assumptions.

Gio:

He goes as predicted, based on unwinds conclusions, and now we're

Gio:

at the point in society where we should be seeing these conclusions.

Gio:

Considering he wrote about 40 years before the sixties or 30 years, he says, as

Gio:

predicted, absolute monogamy has already been replaced with modified monogamy.

Gio:

And we see that in society today.

Gio:

Pollier Morris, relationships, swinging clubs, people going in and

Gio:

out of marriage like it was candy.

Gio:

We see this being true.

Joey:

Thoughts on that?

Joey:

It's particularly pronounced in that.

Joey:

what is common even for children, right?

Joey:

The conversations we're seeing now where, we've got, TikTok, putting out

Joey:

stuff for particularly younger minds,

Joey:

12, I think to like 16 is the demographic age on there.

Joey:

And it, there's sexual content on there.

Joey:

It's talking about how I'm in this polyamorous, you

Joey:

know, poly cu or whatever.

Joey:

And I've never been happier.

Joey:

I've never been more liberated.

Joey:

But it's easy to pretend like that in a 32nd, video, but yet

Joey:

these kids are kind of imbibing that and thinking that's reality,

Joey:

The same thing has happened with Instagram.

Joey:

People see these highly edited photos of these couples that

Joey:

seem to be happy living, their promiscuous lifestyle and having fun.

Joey:

But like that social media masks the pain that, that undergirds.

Gio:

In a future episode we'll talk about specifically that what's

Gio:

happening to the young adult crowd.

Gio:

And even though they sell a veneer of happiness, the stats and society at large,

Gio:

and when you talk to them, one-on-one, you begin to see that each really not

Gio:

fulfilling, they're being sold a bill of goods, with no currency really behind it.

Gio:

Look at this next step that's we are seeing in society when

Gio:

sexual revolution goes rampant.

Gio:

It says, not only has belief in God greatly decreased since the sixties,

Gio:

but there has been a trend to remove the concept of God from government, the

Gio:

educational system, and the public form.

Gio:

How do we, Joey, in this podcast, agree with that yet balance it

Gio:

without going to the other extreme?

Joey:

Completely agree with that, , quote, because ultimately,

Joey:

and it's a conversation.

Joey:

Actually Matt Wolf's had an episode he talked about how there's kind of these two

Joey:

competing narratives on our rights, right?

Joey:

Both, we talk about rights again, but it's like if you remove God from the equation,

Joey:

well, where do you get those rights?

Joey:

You get 'em from government.

Joey:

So in other words, when we remove any mention of God, from our society, the

Joey:

basis for our rights and the freedoms that you and I both agree with, like

Joey:

religious freedom and the fact that we believe that there's a separation of power

Joey:

between the church and the state, all of that comes from a creation worldview.

Joey:

The idea that we're created with certain rights, because basically any

Joey:

instantiation of that includes restraints.

Joey:

We want to push against that.

Joey:

But what we're actually pushing against is the very basis of our rights.

Joey:

But obviously, and as we talked about in a previous episode, that's a balance, and

Joey:

again, Andrew Klavin, I go to him a lot.

Joey:

He's one of my favorite thinkers.

Joey:

He says, that the balance that we gotta strike here.

Joey:

And I think that's what you're getting at with balance here, is that you

Joey:

need virtue, and you need virtuous people enable to have a free society.

Joey:

And yet if you enforce virtue, it ceases to be virtue.

Joey:

So in other words, you need some mechanism as a society.

Joey:

To influence people towards virtue and to inculcate virtue in your populace.

Joey:

But when you tip over that line and you're enforcing it, that defeats the purpose

Joey:

as well, because that's not virtue.

Gio:

You mentioned this to me and I like how you elaborated on it and when

Gio:

we were talking in private, how the writers of the Constitution said, what

Gio:

about morality and the constitution?

Gio:

so

Joey:

The second president of the US, John Adams, he said that our constitution

Joey:

was created from moral and religious people and his holy, inadequate

Joey:

for the governance of any other.

Joey:

And when we think about that, Lincoln talked about that as well

Joey:

when he was expanding this to include the recently enslaved.

Joey:

we're self-governing republic, I believe in a total separation of power between

Joey:

the church and the state, I agreed.

Joey:

But ultimately though, what is the state in the United States, what is

Joey:

the government, well, what's the people?

Joey:

When the people in their private lives have that private religion, have

Joey:

those standards, there isn't even a need to enforce religious edicts,

Joey:

because at least a critical, and it's never been everyone, but at

Joey:

least a critical mass of people in your society are self-regulating.

Joey:

And again, I don't think you have to be a Christian to be self-regulating.

Joey:

I think there are plenty of good atheists and agnostics who self-regulate

Joey:

themselves, but there has to be some standard That's where we get

Joey:

to that balancing line of, again, we talked about before this, the

Joey:

last six commandments, which we can enforce in certain ways and the first

Joey:

four commandments, which we can't.

Joey:

I definitely think, and what the, this article has been getting at

Joey:

is what we're seeing is a total degradation of an elimination of

Joey:

and resistance to any restraints as seen in the last six commandments,

Joey:

particularly on adultery and whatnot.

Gio:

And that leads us to this next quote.

Gio:

Listen to this.

Gio:

It says, in direct contrast to rational thinking, the pursuit of

Gio:

truth, a post-truth culture, abandons, shared objective standards for.

Gio:

and instead stands on appeals to feeling and emotions and

Gio:

what one wants to believe.

Gio:

And boy is that describing society, how I feel, what is good for me to

Gio:

only think about me is become the norm.

Gio:

Well, if everybody on the planet is only thinking about me, then

Gio:

it's gonna naturally lead , to disagreement, to war culture, wars,

Gio:

to a society that isn't cohesive.

Gio:

Absolutely.

Gio:

look at the second half of that quote.

Gio:

It says, people can now identify themselves as something which flat

Gio:

out contradicts science and rational thinking, and in many cases receive

Gio:

the full support and backing of governments and educational system.

Gio:

In Matt Walsh's video, what is a woman?

Gio:

We saw, this play out.

Gio:

And, it's sad because truth is no longer something to be sought after by everyone.

Gio:

Truth becomes just a personal bubble of what truth is to me, and

Gio:

that is not healthy for society.

Gio:

This article mentions that and unwind concluded that once we start

Gio:

going down that line, it becomes inevitably a doomed for society.

Joey:

When it comes to people identifying as things that they're not, this is

Joey:

another area, and again, we like tying in on this podcast, how rational

Joey:

people, we don't have to appeal to scripture and so this issue has been one.

Joey:

We've actually seen some of that common ground,

Joey:

there's a group.

Joey:

, I believe they're called negatively by their opponent turfs or trans-exclusionary

Joey:

radical feminists who are actually kind of starting to agree with

Joey:

conservatives on certain things that we have to have an objective

Joey:

definition of biological reality.

Joey:

She's been a lifelong leftist still is JK Rowling, the author of the Harry

Joey:

Potter franchise, who now she's hated by people who 10 years ago would've

Joey:

lifted her up as like a feminist icon, but all because she insists that women

Joey:

exist and they should be protected.

Joey:

I just think that's an element of where the natural law can

Joey:

unite us around certain things.

Gio:

And even if you believe in evolution, for evolution to take place.

Gio:

For evolution to succeed, for the human race to succeed,

Gio:

you need a man and a woman.

Gio:

Listen to this conclusion by Unwin.

Gio:

Here it says, unwinds three main predictions.

Gio:

The abandonment of rational deism and absolute monogamy are all well

Gio:

underway, which makes the ultimate prediction appear to be credible.

Gio:

The collapse of Western civilization in the third generation,

Gio:

and according to unwinds.

Gio:

Conclusions or timeline, that number will be reached somewhere between now and 2050.

Gio:

that's amazing because many of his predictions are already coming.

Gio:

True.

Gio:

As the sexual, norms become more open they start minimizing the traditional marriage,

Gio:

start minimizing the nuclear family.

Gio:

We see, more awkward things, more irrational things take place in society.

Gio:

And eventually he says, and I don't think this article mentions it, but I've read

Gio:

the 600 page unwind book, sex and Culture.

Gio:

We'll put a link to it if you want it yourself in the show notes, is

Gio:

that once a nation goes down this path, it's destruction is inevitable.

Gio:

And sadly, if the 200 plus year Roman empire can go down, America is not immune.

Joey:

We can't control what society does.

Joey:

Yeah.

Joey:

But what we can control is what we do.

Joey:

And so while it's true trends are what they are, the thing I would say is to

Joey:

any individual watching is you can still make good decisions in your own life.

Joey:

The empire can fall.

Joey:

And yet there were still Christians in the empire as it fell.

Joey:

There were still people who had families I think there is a movement, and this

Joey:

isn't us, but there's a movement online of people who they see the problems.

Joey:

And so they tune out.

Joey:

I think of the men's right community.

Joey:

There's a group called mgtow, men going their own way.

Joey:

They look at the sexual revolution, they look how, court systems,

Joey:

disadvantage men, and they say, you know what, we're just gonna swear

Joey:

off women in relationships entirely.

Joey:

If we are gonna have relationships, we're just gonna, do our own thing.

Joey:

Do what's best for us.

Joey:

I don't think we need to be black pilled, there's still a good life to

Joey:

be had, even if society continues going off the cliff, personal decisions

Joey:

can still, provide a better life.

Joey:

That's the one kind of more red pilling, no, I think white pilling.

Joey:

I gotta get that lingo right.

Joey:

The white pilling, aspect.

Gio:

I'm not advocating that we abandon ship.

Gio:

I'm advocating the opposite.

Gio:

Let those of us who want to pursue truth in whatever avenue, whether it's

Gio:

biology or whether it's religion, or whether it's politics, pursue truth for

Gio:

the truth's sake, not for an agenda.

Gio:

And I think it can help, with society listen to this, which the

Gio:

article says, it says, correlation does not entail causation.

Gio:

Onward makes it clear that he does not know why sexual freedom directly leads

Gio:

to the decline in collapse of cultures.

Gio:

Although he suggests that when sexual energy is restrained through

Gio:

celibacy or monogamy, it is diverted into more productive social energy.

Gio:

And so the reason I bring this up is cuz unwind was balanced.

Gio:

He understood that you can't really tie a direct correlation.

Gio:

But we can, if we wanted to bring scripture in, we could,

Gio:

but let's leave it at that.

Gio:

But even from a natural perspective, when you are spending all of your

Gio:

energy in the pursuit of sexual freedom, it doesn't leave you

Gio:

creativity to pursue anything else.

Gio:

And sex in the confines of marriage, it is pleasurable.

Gio:

It is to be sought after.

Gio:

But when it's done outside of the confines of marriage, it becomes addiction,

Gio:

which why we see so much harm in the pornography industry, why we see so much.

Gio:

When you look at surveys, the more sexual promiscuous you are, the less happy you

Gio:

are yet society, there was that lady show years ago where these women were

Gio:

always promiscuous sex in the city.

Gio:

that kind of behavior.

Gio:

When I speak to women, when I encounter women who have come out of that, they were

Gio:

never happy, including men by the way.

Gio:

I've spoken to men who were quote unquote players who were,

Gio:

ladies, men, they weren't happen.

Gio:

In fact, there's a video going around of Mike Tyson who said, with

Gio:

all his riches and all his money, he had as many women as he wanted.

Gio:

And he said, and I wish I had it.

Gio:

He said, with every sexual encounter he felt that a piece of him was being stolen.

Gio:

And so we see that the pleasure it's supposed to bring, it's only for a season.

Gio:

For those of you who know the scripture, you know that phrase, there's pleasure

Gio:

and sin, but for a season and we need to get back to traditional marriage,

Gio:

we need to get back to monogamy.

Joey:

I like that you brought out that sex itself is not a bad thing,

Joey:

because there's certain religious sex and certain religious people who

Joey:

can make it seem that way, right?

Joey:

Or they make it so taboo, That they never talk about it, and they think, if

Joey:

we never talk about it in our churches, that's how we, protect this thing, except

Joey:

that the left and culture are happy to talk about it from their perspective,

Joey:

one side's making it a taboo and making it seem like, oh, it's shame attached

Joey:

to it, and the other side is saying, come over here, there's no shame.

Joey:

Well, first of all, it's not true over here, but over here it actually

Joey:

would be true if you talk about it from, not a Christian, but you just

Joey:

talk about it from monogamy and the benefits to marriage and all that.

Joey:

It's a positive thing.

Joey:

And it doesn't have to be a taboo.

Joey:

It's a good thing in its proper role.

Gio:

All good things can be abused.

Gio:

I remember years ago it was the saddest case.

Gio:

A woman wanted to win.

Gio:

. I don't know if it was Sony PlayStation, and the goal was, who could drink

Gio:

the most water in five minutes?

Gio:

Now water is the best drink for you.

Gio:

However, she drank so much.

Gio:

She unbalanced her electrolytes and ended up dying.

Gio:

Overdosing on water, where anything that is good, taken to an.

Gio:

Sex outside of the confines of marriage becomes the extreme, sex

Gio:

trafficking and pornography can destroy that, which in itself is good.

Gio:

Joey, we gotta wrap this up, but I didn't wanna leave without

Gio:

addressing these two clips.

Gio:

Let's show the first clip for the audience and then take us, through them.

. Joey:

So initially the pill was made available to married women

. Joey:

only, and then it was made available to unmarried women as well.

. Joey:

Ah, and then not long afterwards, you have, I mean, the, the, the timeline

. Joey:

in Britain and America and other, um, western nations is all about the same.

. Joey:

Not long afterwards, you then get the decriminalization of abortion,

. Joey:

and then not long afterwards, you see the, the shotgun marriage

. Joey:

ends as a, as an institution.

. Joey:

Like you see, you see marriage rates of all kind falling off a cliff.

. Joey:

But you also see the shotgun marriage, which had existed to deal with unwanted

. Joey:

childbearing disappears as a social tool and the, the really perverse outcome of

. Joey:

the pill, which is a beautiful example of the fact that human beings are

. Joey:

very, very complicated in our society.

. Joey:

They're very complicated and you, you can't predict how technology

. Joey:

shocks are gonna affect them.

. Joey:

You see, um, rates of single motherhood.

. Joey:

, who would've thought that would happen?

. Joey:

Right?

. Joey:

You introduce a technology which allows women to regulate death, fertility, and

. Joey:

it leads to a rise in single motherhood.

. Joey:

But I think the reason for that is because the pill isn't

. Joey:

a hundred percent effective.

. Joey:

No form of contraception is, and actually the early pill in particular, you've got

. Joey:

quite a high rate of, uh, quite a high failure rate, but you end up with the

. Joey:

absolute amount of premarital sex goes up, and therefore some portion of that is

. Joey:

going to result in an unwanted pregnancy.

. Joey:

And, and, and some women, for whatever reason, don't wanna have an abortion.

. Joey:

And so you'll end up with unexpected babies.

. Joey:

And when the social institutions that used to exist to regulate fertility

. Joey:

like marriage have all fallen away as a result of the pill's introduction,

. Joey:

What we see in that clip that I think is so important, and I certainly

. Joey:

recommend anyone listening as soon as you're done with this, like, and share.

. Joey:

But then go over to Mikayla Peterson's, podcast and

. Joey:

listen to this episode in full.

. Joey:

It was really, really good in illuminating, and think it just

. Joey:

flows nicely into what we were talking about with, the paper that we read.

. Joey:

But one thing that I noticed there, I think we can be hard on culture, we can

. Joey:

be hard on, where when we're talking about these issues, we can be very, these

. Joey:

are bad people doing these things, but like these things, the pill, I think

. Joey:

abortion is an evil, but these movements, They were for, in other words, there

. Joey:

were injustices in our society in certain ways, in the way women were treated.

. Joey:

Especially at coming out of the, industrial revolution, where women's

. Joey:

role in the house that had been so central was kind of pushed to the side.

. Joey:

So these things, people, they fought for these things for a reason,

. Joey:

and yet it's the law of unintended consequences, what we've seen, and

. Joey:

I think, un which did a really good job , of illuminating this early on,

. Joey:

but a lot of people didn't get it.

. Joey:

But it's just when we introduce some new thing that we think is gonna

. Joey:

give us more freedom, ultimately, if it's not in line with natural

. Joey:

law, it's gonna make us less free.

. Joey:

And I feel for like single mothers and I think.

. Joey:

, as Christians, as decent people, we should care for them and

. Joey:

we should love them, because ultimately they do have children.

. Joey:

And the other thing is they made a good choice after their bad choice, I don't

. Joey:

think we should hate on anyone, but I just think as we've let these guardrails

. Joey:

slip away, And I like how Luis Perry says it, these social institutions

. Joey:

that were supposed to inculcate this virtue as that's gone away, it's

. Joey:

left a lot of suffering in its rake.

Gio:

That's the problem.

Gio:

We think we are enlightening ourselves.

Gio:

We think we're getting better, but as we tear down traditional values,

Gio:

society becomes more an anarchy.

Gio:

Joey, uh, there's one more clip you wanted to share, and so let's look

Gio:

at that here before we sign off.

Gio:

It became a

Joey:

biological choice for women.

Joey:

Fatherhood became a social choice for men, and it became socially, it

Joey:

became socially acceptable for men to walk away from children, um, in

Joey:

a way that it hadn't been before.

Joey:

Not to say that there hadn't always been cases of scoundrels, you

Joey:

know, impregnating women and then, and then leaving, but it is now.

Joey:

The deadbeat dad is now completely socially acceptable.

Joey:

in a way that he wasn't before and is really in a way that one of the, one

Joey:

of the winners of the sexual revolution Because there's now No, there's now no,

Joey:

I mean the, the, the rates of non-payment of child support are astonishingly high.

Joey:

And it shouldn't surprise us that single mothers are some of the, um,

Joey:

is the group that the group of people most likely to be in poverty while

Joey:

married mothers are least likely to be.

Joey:

Which is why I have a chapter at the end of my book where I make a feminist

Joey:

case for marriage and say that actually marriage is completely in the interest

Joey:

of oath of mothers and, and of children.

Joey:

This is what I think is so important, right?

Joey:

Because what we're talking about is as Protestants, we want to be able,

Joey:

in this podcast, To explain rational reasons, philosophical and otherwise,

Joey:

for the things that we believe and the things that we believe society should do

Joey:

without appealing directly to scripture.

Joey:

And I don't think there could be a better case here than what she's laying out

Joey:

about marriage, in that marriage puts the implication that there's gonna be

Joey:

this couple that's gonna come together.

Joey:

The man is gonna do his part, woman's gonna do her part, and

Joey:

they're gonna raise a family.

Joey:

What she's laying out there right about deadbeat dads kind

Joey:

of being socially acceptable.

Joey:

There was a time when that wasn't the case, if you were a guy and you were,

Joey:

not taking care of your kids, that would've been socially frowned upon.

Joey:

But now it's so ubiquitous that it's just like what ifs?

Joey:

And again, this is one of those things where, We can look at that in terms

Joey:

of just looking at the situation and saying, something's not right here.

Joey:

This isn't good for children.

Joey:

I don't need to go to scripture.

Joey:

I just look at it and be like, there's a system here that's set up and as

Joey:

we've moved away from it, it's created chaos, and the stats bear this out,

Joey:

right when it comes to fatherless homes and it comes to children from homes where

Joey:

fathers aren't there, higher crime rate among the boys, higher, , rates of them

Joey:

end up becoming, deadbeat dads higher.

Joey:

Suicide rates among girls, higher depression rates among girls are more

Joey:

likely that the girls will wind up in an abusive relationship if they

Joey:

didn't have a father in the home.

Joey:

There's so many things just from the natural law that we can look and we

Joey:

can see this situation isn't good.

Joey:

And there's a word, which in our modern society gets a bad

Joey:

rap, and that's patriarchy.

Joey:

And I think it gets a bad rap.

Joey:

Jordan Peterson does a good job of laying this out, is that it gets a bad rap

Joey:

and this kind of hierarchy because when it's corrupted, when the guy isn't doing

Joey:

what he should, it can be oppressive.

Joey:

But when it's ordered towards service and servant leadership,

Joey:

it actually is a good thing.

Joey:

When men leave their families well, when men protect their families, when

Joey:

they sacrifice for their families, that actually is a good thing.

Joey:

But toxic masculinity, and obviously that gets called any masculinity.

Joey:

It's called toxic masculinity.

Joey:

But actual toxic masculinity is the deadbeat dad culture.

Joey:

. Gio: One example I'd like to

Joey:

Unless your wife is a SWAT team member or a Navy Seal or a police

Joey:

officer, just nature teaches us.

Joey:

I have a one-year-old in the home.

Joey:

If somebody's breaking in, I'm not gonna tell my wife, let me have the

Joey:

three girls and the baby I'll cower in this room in the back corner.

Joey:

And you go find out what's happening, that's just not society.

Joey:

And when we destroy those gender roles, because we are two separate

Joey:

genders, we're male and female.

Joey:

We're both equal, yet we have our own sphere of influence.

Joey:

There are biological differences and when they are in harmony working together,

Joey:

a married couple is unstoppable.

Joey:

They can achieve anything.

Joey:

They can change their family tree and generations and they can be a blessing

Joey:

to society when that is attacked upon.

Joey:

It is detrimental to society.

Joey:

And even though single mothers are loved and they're blessed, they have a harder

Joey:

road to climb when they have to do it by themselves because some deadbeat

Joey:

father is no longer in the picture.

Joey:

And yet society seems to encourage that in this new wave.

Joey:

Feminism.

Joey:

And I do like the video because, and I do recommend you watch it, because there is,

Joey:

two women instead of us, two men talking about similar things that we talked about.

Joey:

Joey, as we sign off here, it's a long video, but we

Joey:

just had a great conversation.

Joey:

What are your final thoughts before we sign off

Joey:

in The words of the great Bioethicist?

Joey:

Leon.

Joey:

Cass, there's a certain wisdom in our repugnance because we're

Joey:

sinful, we can have bad prejudices,

Joey:

we can have prejudices based on racial discrimination and stuff,

Joey:

which I think is sinful and wrong.

Joey:

Within our human reason.

Joey:

What we see is that there are certain things that naturally

Joey:

we see are right, but we want to silence them because whatever.

Joey:

And I think there's a wisdom in not silencing that repugnance, the idea

Joey:

that I think it's kind of natural to not have as much respect for, a

Joey:

guy who's shirking at his kids.

Joey:

And I don't think we have to get rid of that, or there's kind of a natural

Joey:

wisdom in the fact that we know that relationships are better, right?

Joey:

When you don't cheat on your, the other person, when you keep

Joey:

monogamous, I think we kind of know.

Joey:

, but we we wanna be tolerant, we gotta get rid of that repugnance.

Joey:

But I think there's some wisdom in that, that it's kind of no matter

Joey:

how far we've gotten, in our consciences, there's that little voice

Joey:

telling us, eh, that ain't right.

Gio:

There's a story that there was a thief stealing, TVs and radio

Gio:

players from people's houses.

Gio:

And one day he gets home with a bag of goods and he comes into his home

Gio:

and realizes that somebody broke into his house and stole his things.

Gio:

Well, he ends up going off on a tizzy, calls the police only for the

Gio:

police to find in the backseat of his car, things that he had stolen.

Gio:

And today, too many people want to live with.

Gio:

It's good for you, but not for me.

Gio:

We have to.

Gio:

be right to our families, to ourselves, and to society.

Gio:

And only when we have those things in balance can we live in harmony.

Gio:

And those of us who are being coed by society, we need to be able to stand

Gio:

up and articulate without appealing to scripture, what is right and wrong.

Gio:

And I think that's what Joey and myself are trying to do.

Gio:

Until next time, stay tuned and thank you for supporting

Gio:

Subscribe wherever possible.

Gio:

Follow Gio and Joey on Twitter and we'll put our handles in the show notes.

Gio:

Until next time, God bless, take care and continue to fight the good fight.

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About the Podcast

Gio & Joey
Talking cultural, political, social issues from a Protestant perspective
This podcast will explore our culture, news and other current events, from a Protestant world view. Too often we don't know how to do that in a secular world. We will talk about how we live out our world view in our day to day lives, how our protestant tradition should inform our interactions with the media, news and events that take place in our lives!